Feedback about 2.104 modes versus 2.09 modes

[toyman4817]

I am looking to by the 2b or the 312. I have heard a lot about how smooth the 312 is but I feel it is over priced. I originally came to this forum to see if the 2b can give HFO. I hear a lot about the 312 being able to do that but little on the 2b. Reading the current owner's comments about the 2b being smoother before the upgrade is a concern to me. I do not like the sharp feeling of my cheap device now and I would like to think buying a more expensive unit would insure a smoother feel. I do like the idea of rolling back update versions for this reason.

Is there any plans of fixing the concerns mentioned by the other users in this forum? Maybe it has been fixed and there was no updated message in the forum. I hope so because from the sounds of it I will need to wait before I buy the 2b.

By the way. The original message comparing the feel within 48 hours was very well written. And the fact of the possibilities of HFO is what I am looking for. I hope the update can be updated to get the smooth feel back again.

Thanks for letting a possible future customer place a comment.

[admin]

The 2B can and does give HFO for many people, but it is impossible to create a unit that will guarantee an HFO for everybody.

Yes we are working on a new firmware, but these things do take time, especially as its very had to narrow down exactly what is causing the issues for a very small number of people. The only changes to the code from 2.09 to 2.103/4 where some changes to the control monitoring and the addition of the new boot loading software. Now we know the that bootloader doesn't effect the output in any shape or form, so it is down to the changes in the control timing code, which from a technical point of view don't appear to show any differences in output from 2.09 to 2.103/4, but a small number of people have commented on the difference in feel.

We cannot just drop back to the older code, as this would bring back a larger problem of the 'throb/thrust' bug, which left 3 major modes very difficult to use (throb/thrust and audio), and as we have proved any changes in one area do seem to effect other areas.

The other issue we have is the nature of E-Stim, trying to define what 'smoothness' actually is and 'feel' is all but impossible and we have proved that peoples perception and response to e-stim sensation does change from day to day and even hour to hour. We have had people adamant that certain modes are 'broken' when its just the nature of the sensation is different to what they expect, and we have had others praising the differences in feel between 2.103, and 2.104, when there were no changes to the output code.

As we have the ability to change the code in the 2B, almost at will, I'm looking at releasing smaller test blocks of firmware with possibly one or two modes for people to try, then if they are happy we will bring it in to the main stream, but remember 2.103 was being played with by us and other users for around 3 months before we released it in beta form, and then several months later the first comments over the difference between 2.09 and 2.103 were received.

I can release code faster, but we have to balance between people wanting the 'latest' code and having a robust code base that works.

Any code released from 2.104 will have the ability to roll back to 2.104, as we now how a robust and reliable boot loader, but we cannot drop back further as wew wlould loose the boot loader system.

Si

[ben71fr]

Thank you toyman for the appreciation, I tried to be as useful and helpful as possible.

Thank you admin for the informations. I hope you will take care of existing customers as much as future customers

It is clear everybody is and feel different, that is why I only compared my own personal experience with the exact same configuration. I tried again since my first message and always get the same new feeling, so I can say they are consistent results.
And once again I did not compare "expectations" to "results", I compared "old FW results" with "new FW results".

I wrote my feedback immediately after upgrade. But there was no broad announcement (newsletter like) and I only discovered by chance the new FW.

I understand the technical matter. In my opinion, you should let each of your customer make his choice, because like you said, everybody is different. Could it be possible to let us customize the feelings ? I mean like you can configure your desktop's wallpaper without breaking or changing the OS, maybe you could offer different firmwares or a customizable firmware ?

It is good to know the FW can now be downgraded at will to 2.104. So why don't you release them more often ? After all nobody is forced to upgrade, and even if not satisfied, one can downgrade. For instance that would have solved the concern I had with my upgrade.
In my professional experience, it is much better to release small upgrades frequently than big upgrades once or twice a year, from the "user experience" point of view.

If you have new FW available for release, I would be glad to help testing it and share my feedback.

Ben

[admin]

News about new firmware is generally released via our email lists, advertised on the website and on twitter. We do sometimes release beta and alpha versions in a more discreet manner for people to test, but the problem we have is when it gets into the mainstream people seem to ignore the fact that its a beta release and I get reams of emails regarding 'it don't work' or this is wrong or this mode is not there - you get the idea.

i would like to release new version of code more quickly, but at the moment I don't have a dedicated coding team, and keeping up with the day to day testing and production of current products is a massive task, however we should have some news in the next couple of weeks that will certainly speed things up in terms of production of new code and all of the other new goodies we have planned.

User customisation is certainly on the list of things to do, as is coding in a more modular fashion, allowing possibly end users to 'build' their 2B how they like it - if you never use the audio modes, why have them loaded? If you always use the 2B in high, then why not keep it in high? - you get the idea

Thanks for all the feed back - it is vitally important to us, without feedback, both positive and negative i will never know what works and does not work for everyone else - obviously I know what works for me

Si

[ben71fr]

Thanks for sharing all the "behind the scene" informations
I will wait eagerly for the next releases and improvements, and continue to write my feedback here as long as it is appreciated and used to improve our loved unit

Note regarding communications : I do not use twitter, rarely go to websites frequently (unless they are updated very often), and I am a subscriber of your mailing list.

[wanadoobe]

Thank you all for your feedback.

My topic is now 4 months old. What are you thinking of it at Estim ? Have you made some tests ? Are you working on a new FW ? Can I help more, do you have more questions ?

I would be very happy to get back to the 2.09 feelings, I am still trying to achieve a HFO and I was much closer to success with 2.09

It would be nice to keep us updated regularly. Thank you

------------------------

Hello,

I'm in the same situation, since the shift in 2104.

Would it be possible to downgrade the FW 2.0.9, or a SHIFT correcting bug is it in anticipation?

Cordially.

[admin]

Well there have been some delays, and I then decided to move the business lock stock and barrel, to new premises, and now I have one thing I have needed - space. So The new Firmware is coming closer for the 2B. I am intending to build some micro modes, downloadable modes that only run one mode, but give a lot more control and allow us to look into the feelings that people have, then we can combine them into the main code and upgrade as we go along. I'm also looking into a rebuild of the interface code, as there are a number of internal tribes I have with the way the code operates - hopefully this will giver a much smoother feel to the current modes.

Si

[electroscott]

That's some really great news; congratulations on the big move and thank you for considering this firmware path. Sounds really neat and interesting.

I want to follow-up with my previous comment and say that after I've spent some more time with the 2.104 firmware, I notice that I'm enjoying more of the seeings on Pulse, for example, when the primary control is down close to 3-4, less than, say 20-25 for sure. Secondary setting usually varies between 50-90 depending on the sensation I'm going for. Still have to really crank the power, though. Still can't bring in a HFO like I used to be able to, but at least I'm getting closer to feeling, um, closer

Wishing you and your staff the very best of holidays. Thanks for the great product.

--Scott

[Roamer]

Just wanted to say that I recently got a new Estim 2B and so far my results are similar to the original poster including a couple of modes that seem to be the same as continuous rather than something that reflects the description given for those modes. Using audio files there seems to be something lacking and the files tend to feel very similar to each other. So far they don't show the same complexity that I get from the Erostek 312B. I am pretty new with the 2B so it may be that I will find settings that work better (and maybe there are things I don't understand). However it feels to me like some of the modes are "broken" at the moment.

[admin]

Just wanted to say that I recently got a new Estim 2B and so far my results are similar to the original poster including a couple of modes that seem to be the same as continuous rather than something that reflects the description given for those modes. Using audio files there seems to be something lacking and the files tend to feel very similar to each other. So far they don't show the same complexity that I get from the Erostek 312B. I am pretty new with the 2B so it may be that I will find settings that work better (and maybe there are things I don't understand). However it feels to me like some of the modes are "broken" at the moment.

There are no 'broken modes' on the 2B. To say you have similar results to the original poster is hard to understand, as a new 2B would have 2.104, so comparing it to 2.09 would be very hard. All the modes on the 2B are fully operational and work - a couple of the modes perform slightly differently to 2.09 which is the original issue.

Some modes need to have levels set and adjustments made to feel what you are expecting - and it might not be what you are expecting - the 2B is not a ET312 clone. For example the training mode does cause confusion as each step is a % of the level set, so having the level set to 10% would give very small steps which you might not feel, setting it to 30% would increase the size of the steps. Tickle also causes angst as it is only operational when you adjust the adjust knob, and the level is set high enough to feel.

Si